Greg Atchison—How Christian CEOs Scale Without Compromising Their Faith

Greg Atchison  0:00  
You know, I challenge our business owners. I'm like, you know, our job is to work ourselves out of a job that's our number one job is for us to be developing leaders, to come alongside us so that we can move on and do the things that only we should be doing as leaders.

David Bush  0:18  
Welcome to the Business Builders playbook, the show that breaks down the systems and strategies behind Predictable Revenue Growth to win in business. In each episode, we're diving into the proven strategies that separate the winners who scale from the losers who fail. This show is sponsored by bdr.ai the AI powered business development platform that automates your outbound prospecting so you can focus in on closing deals instead of chasing leads. Let's get started. Well, welcome everybody. My name is David, and I get a chance to be your host and moderator for this exciting live Q and A with my friend Greg Atchison, and we're going to dive into a very important topic on how Christian CEOs scale without compromising their faith, and that is a very important topic, and it's probably something that could go far beyond a 45 minute live Q and A, but Greg has really done a lot of work in this area, and he's done a lot of training, and he's had a lot of experience in helping Christian CEOs to scale their business without compromising their faith, and also helping individuals to move from isolation to community, and help them to implement a business as a ministry model, and help them to really drive operational excellence that honors God. So this is just not about business growth. It's really about leadership, stewardship. And so for those of you that don't know Greg. He brings over 40 years of military, corporate and academic leadership experience to his role as a C 12 chair. He answered God's call, and he now helps business owners lead with clarity purpose and kingdom impact. His background includes co leading a 50 plus million dollar business, overseeing large technical and R and D teams and developing leaders at every level, including emerging leaders, senior managers and global executives at Boeing. He also holds a PhD in organizational management and leadership. He's a professional certified coach and serves as an adjunct professor at a local university or at the Aeronautical University. How do you pronounce that Embry Riddle? Embree riddle,

Greg Atchison  2:21  
yeah, like Orlando, I'm sorry. Daytona Beach.

David Bush  2:24  
Daytona Beach, yeah, for four for more than 20 years, Greg has been active in the marketplace and small group ministry, and he currently serves as the deacon and small group leader at First Baptist Church. So excited to be able to dive in with you today, Greg, and thanks so much for taking the time out of your busy schedule to do a little Q and A with us, and for the participants that are here live with us. We'd love to see questions in the chat. We'd love to have this be interactive. We'd love to see you share feedback. We'll use those questions as time permits to be able to fill in some of the gaps. But Greg excited to be out having this conversation today, and thanks for joining us.

Greg Atchison  3:02  
You bet. Oh, it's great, David, I'm really excited about it. It is, as you said, it's a conversation worth having. You know, the questions, the question around growth, but still holding fast to our faith is an important one. You know, one is just, just, how can we how can we grow our businesses, but also, how can we further the kingdom through all of that? And I think that's exciting times, absolutely.

David Bush  3:30  
And we'd love to have anybody comment if you just arrived. We'd love to have you throw in the industry that you're coming in from, so that everybody knows where to find that chat feature. But while those answers are coming in or those questions? Greg, I want to kick the things off with a very important question, because there's a lot of senior level leaders, CEOs, that are struggling with isolation because it's lonely at the top. So what are some of your strategies, and how have you helped organizations or helped individuals to overcome what it feels like in terms of isolation?

Greg Atchison  4:02  
Yeah, you know, thanks. Thanks for the question, David, I was, you know that cliche, some would say it's a cliche that's lonely at the top, but you know the quite frankly, it's the truth. You know that as as somebody steps into that CEO position, or steps into that leadership position, all of a sudden, the number of people willing to come to them with with honest feedback, they get farther and farther, you know, more scarce kind of thing. And there are those people who are, you know, just reluctant to share kind of thing, so that that can be a very real challenge for leaders. You know, they're the opportunities for blind spots to grow. They get more and more prominent, you know, and again, we can kind of lose our way. So that is one of the great things about organizations like C 12 and peer advisory groups, is that, you know, we bring business owners together. Case, in the case of C 12, we invest a day each month together, so coming around a table and spending that day together. All of these people are coming from different industries, but they all have the same challenges. You know, they all struggle with whether it be the finances and revenue generation kind of things, whether it be working with people and just challenges with coaching their employees. All of those things are very real. But the great thing about a peer advisory group is somebody most likely has had that experience before. They've been through that challenge, and they have something to share with that person that's dealing with it. So it's it's a great opportunity to come together, one to just pour into each other, to hold each other accountable, but they encourage each other too, kind of thing, and in the case of C 12, to spend time praying with each other. Because we know that one, that these are God's businesses, that we're simply stewards of those businesses, and we need to be, we need to be doing what he wants for us to glorify Him in that business. So how can we, how can we use that business as a ministry, if you will?

David Bush  6:09  
Yeah, and the church isn't necessarily addressing this level on a big scale. Maybe some churches have a little bit more of a marketplace ministry type of opportunity. So really, what you're doing is you're bringing that peer advisory together, so that there is that collaboration, and there's the insight and the blind spot monitoring, kind of like in our cars, but we have those little signals that go off and we have a car in our blind spot, you're able to bring that up. And that's obviously not just helping with isolation, but it's helping with some major, major, big decisions, or a lack of indecision because of a blind spot. So let's, let's talk a little bit about, you know, I'm sure that there's some things that you've come up with that are kind of like some common factors as it relates to maybe CEOs feeling like they can't scale. Otherwise, there's going to have to be more compromises that are made. So are there any specific compromises that you have seen that are considered to be real and some that are actually like completely made up in our minds, that we have to compromise our faith? And I'll tell you a little bit more about this in just a moment, but I'm just curious. Anything that comes to mind?

Greg Atchison  7:25  
Well, what I think they can compromise in regards to the way that they see their employees. In other words, let's just say so for us, it's very much when we think about business and think about business as a ministry, we think about, I just remind business owners, I said, you know, according to Matthew 25 you know, we're all going to be held accountable for our businesses. So we're gonna be standing in front of the Lord at some point, he's gonna say, what'd you do with that business that I gave you a chance to run? And what about all of those people that I gave you a chance to lead? And, oh, by the way, they have families, and you're part of a larger community and things like that. And what are you doing to care for those people? You know, it's he doesn't need our money, but he needs the people kind of thing. So, you know, for us, one of the easiest places to compromise. Begin to cut corners on how we care for employees to you know, maybe we begin to think of them more as numbers and revenue generators than people created in God's image and having infinite value and worth our investment, kind of thing. So we begin to cut back on those investments. We get, begin to get cut back on the care for those employees, and again, just see them as numbers more than anything.

David Bush  8:41  
That's good, yeah. The reason why I was asking that question is that I had a conversation with a Christian business owner, and he employs hundreds and hundreds of employees, and I was very impressed with the way that he led his business, using it business as a ministry. And I asked the question. I said, Do you come into challenges with, you know, legal issues. And he goes, we live in a free country. There's no laws that says you can't, you know, run your business according to your principles and the values that you'd like to have. And it was just somewhat of an eye opener for me to think about, like at that level that, you know, there's other organizations, Hobby Lobby and Chick fil A, and many others that have integrated their faith into their business, but I was just kind of curious if there was some common things that you ran into. So thanks for sharing that. So let's jump in and talk a little bit more about the concept of business as a ministry, and what does that actually look like in real life terms?

Greg Atchison  9:39  
Yeah, you know what I would say is one, it looks a little bit different in every business you know, that they will for some you know, again, let me just start off again by just going back to this point that we don't own those businesses, that that we are simply stewards of that business. And to start off with we need to. Be talking to the boss. We need to be talking to God about what did he wants, what he wants for us in that business. So what is his intent with that business? That means we have to be talking to him around our strategies and things like that. So it starts there, you know, but then again, gets back to, how do we care for the employees? And that might be, you know, as simple as you know, we're going to start our leadership meetings with prayer. That might mean that some businesses are holding Bible studies at lunchtime or off hours kind of thing. That might mean that we have chaplains in the workplace. So many of our business owners have chaplains from one of our two strategic partners, where they'll come in and just talk to the employees on a regular basis, not to preach to them, but just ask how things are going, because at some point things are not going to be going so well. And they could just use somebody to talk to, and chaplains are great for that, you know, and they'll take the time to pray for somebody, or to visit them in the hospital or to visit somebody in jail, whatever that is. I've had chaplains who've, who've done, done a funeral service for one of our businesses where they lost their employee to an auto accident. For example, person wasn't part of the church, but the chaplain stepped in to lead the funeral, for example, you know? But you know what really is cool. I had a business owner just talking to him last Friday, and he had taken his leadership team, and he said, you know, we're going to start a leadership meetings in prayer. I'm going to start with that. And a couple weeks ago, he failed to start the meeting with that, and one of his employees, one of his leaders, stepped up and said, Hey, I thought we were going to start our meetings with prayer. How about that, you know? And that's just, you know, that whether they're believers or not, they still think it's important, you know. And they think it's a value, you know, when we talk about businesses ministry, and there's a cost to it. And for some people, and if they're not believers, they they're a little bit apprehensive. But the bottom line is, nobody likes to be cared for less, you know. So as we can invest our employees and we can show them love, and we can take care of their physical needs, their emotional needs and their spiritual needs, that's a good thing, no, and they value that, even again, they might not be strong believers or not, but nobody wants to be cared for less.

David Bush  12:22  
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Greg Atchison  13:35  
a business? Very much. So yeah, again, for us, as I think about it, and I think about our companies, that I get a chance to help steward, it really is about how we lead, the businesses that we step in with leadership. And again, it is about compassion. It's about faith. It's about courage, in some cases, so again, being willing to step in, and as you alluded to earlier, maybe a little apprehension around Can I, can I pray in my business meeting? Can I offer a Bible study? But as you know, the person you talk to said, it's, it's a free country. It's my business, you know, to lead kind of thing. So to least offer those things. The key is ask for permission, you know, so is it okay if we pray to start with the meeting? Is okay with you guys, if we offer a Bible study, whether you come or not, that's okay kind of thing. So for much, you know, for us, it's really about offering those opportunities. For people,

David Bush  14:36  
yeah, this particular business owner, I asked him about, you know, aspects of how he integrated it, and he's and he's talked about one of the areas that he integrated with just when they do their hiring process, he asked people, are you prepared to lead your team spiritually? I thought that's a powerful question in an interview, when you're interviewing a manager or senior level. Leader. So are there anything, or any other strategies that you have found to be successful when it comes to scaling, or, you know, hiring and growing a business without making other compromises to your faith? Because I'm sure that talent pool has a factor, and maybe there's not somebody that's, you know, maybe a strong believer, and maybe they don't have the same, what's you want to say? The same mindset around that the business is God's business, and you're stewarding it. And if there's a senior level leader that's maybe feeling a level of responsibility and ownership and doesn't feel like that God's going to provide, how would you handle that process?

Greg Atchison  15:41  
Yeah, yeah. It's a great question. And again, you'll see all different versions of it, you know, but it, it will very much, could very well begin through the enterprise inner interview process. And again, we can't, we can't choose our employees based on faith. But we can say this is a Christ led company, that the owners of this company are believers, and that's their faith, and that's the way that they're, you know, morally going to operate the business, or ethically going to operate the business. And just simply ask the question, could you see yourself working here? And for some people will opt out, you know, but it's not to say that we're going to force religion on you, but just to say, Would you be comfortable working in a place like this, whether you participate in the prayer time, or whether you participate in the Bible study? That's completely up to you. Can't make anybody do that, but I can simply offer those things

David Bush  16:42  
for those of you that are joining us live and thanks everybody for participating. I would love to see any questions that you have in the chat. Otherwise, if you have something that has really helped you to scale your business without compromising your faith, we'd love to see that in the chat as well, so that we can recognize some of the successes of others. Because, you know, that's really the whole benefit of the the peer advisory is really the the collective intelligence of others and the idea that there's peer support. And, you know, when you have to make some of those hard decisions, or you have to, you know, address some of those blind spots that are oftentimes, you know, you you can see everybody else's problems but but not necessarily your own. So let's talk a little bit more about how a peer advisory board can accelerate business growth without compromising their faith.

Greg Atchison  17:36  
Yeah. Yeah. Good. Great question again, the benefit and the value that a peer advisory board brings is just different perspectives, different experiences. It's really a great way to compress learning. So on average, you know, again, C 12, our thoughts are, bring 12 business owners together. So on average, that's over 200 years of experience around a table, you know, and all of those people have had different experiences based on their businesses. So, you know, the bottom line is, you're going to face questions. You know, you're going to have challenges within your business, whether they be cash flow, questions, whether they be people, questions, whether they be strategy, questions, whether they be competitor questions, you know, supply chain questions, you're going to have those kind of questions coming up in your business, and most likely one of those other 12 people around the table have been through those things before. So it's a it's a great way to one to leverage somebody else's experience for you, so you're not making the same mistake yourself or not making that mistake yourself. It's really it's not just about strategy, but it's also about bringing clarity. It's about accountability. You know, having people around you who can challenge your assumptions. In C 12, we like to say, you know, they can answer your questions, but they can also question your answer. So, you know, they can shoot holes. They can, you know, be the devil's advocate when we bring a strategy to them. So, you know, as an example, within C 12, towards the fall, in September, we'll talk about getting ready for your strategy planning for the next year. So thinking about the next year's planning, and in December, the media, the members, will come together and share their plans for the next year, you know, and that gives them opportunity to hear from their peers, like, Well, have you thought about this? I you know you might be missing the mark in regards to strategy. So you have a chance to get real time feedback on kind of the things that you're bringing again strategies for growth, if you will. So it's again about gaining perspective, gaining from somebody else's experiences, and holding people accountable and encouraging kind of thing. So all of those things are are advantageous for helping others to grow. And as I think about that, I've looked. Though we're just in the last day or so looking at the growth of some of our members. Some of them are three and 400% over the last four or five years, you know, which is pretty phenomenal. They might have started with a team of 10, and now they're, you know, 5060, employees and over multiple states and stuff. And it's pretty incredible.

David Bush  20:20  
Yeah, that's great. I love the phrase the experience of others compresses time, you know, and then you have those experiences. Not only do you have less fear, because now you can address the false evidence that is appearing real to you about some of the growth factors, but you're also able to say, you know, hey, if that person can do it, so can I Right? People do what people do? So there's a whole benefit of that whole peer advisory process that's multifaceted, but here's a question that I'd love to get answer for everybody watching live or watching the recording. What kind of encouragement or guidance would you give a Christian CEO who is maybe going through some difficult economic seasons and maybe struggling a little bit with some of their faith values.

Greg Atchison  21:03  
Yeah, that can be challenging, certainly right when they're up against the wall and and feeling the pressures of whether it be cash flow or, you know, you know, you think about a business owner could be part of a small group at church, you know, whether it be a Sunday school class or during the week, a home group kind of thing, and most likely, the rest of the people in that room don't have the experience of, how do I make? How do I make? How do I make cash flow and payday available for everybody? Because it's not there, right? And so that can be a challenge. And you know, for C 12 members, are for that peer advisory group, just one encourage them, just to remind them that this is God's business. It's not our job to succeed. Our job is to be faithful. So one is just to remind them about that. And then the other part is really that about helping them think through what's what's the next best step, you know, for others around the table to help them navigate those things and say, Well, have you thought about this? Have you thought about that again? Here's how I've navigated the very same thing. You know what part of the question is, not just, how do I survive, but who am I becoming while I survive? Right? What is, what is the experience God wants me to get through this. For example, we all have to make those hard decisions. So even Christian business leaders at some point are going to have to make hard decisions about, you know, budget cuts, restructuring, perhaps, you know, downsizing. But then the question is not necessarily about who goes, but what are we going to do to care for them on the way out, kind of thing. So how can I help them with soft landing? How can I care for them even when we have to send them home? Kind of thing? That's the difference with it. With Christian business owners, is thinking about, you know, there's still people with infinite value and created in His image. So how do I care for them? They all have human you know, they're they're deserving of dignity and respect. So how do we do that, even when we have to send them home, kind of thing? That's where faith becomes visible.

David Bush  23:16  
Yeah, I was actually coached in a business that I was running at the time, and I remember the chaplain specifically that asked me the question, Dave, are you more successful than you are significant? And that was a big eye opener for me. And then he also asked me, Do you really believe in the proverbial wisdom that a good name is worth far more than great riches. And sometimes you know you have to be called out on that, on those issues, to be able to really see some of the things that you're moving in direction of. Because, you know, again, sometimes you know you're involved in church, involved in small group, but business is kind of that separate thing. It's not actually being integrated into all aspects of faith, and you're really helping organizations and individuals to do that. So I'm curious, how do you measure success when it comes to spiritual impact and being able Is there any key metrics that you guys use that would really help a business owner to understand where they're at in the process, like an assessment or something.

Greg Atchison  24:24  
There certainly are assessments. I mean, it's not, it's not uncommon for businesses to go through kind of the best places to work, kind of a cultural assessment, perhaps an employee engagement assessment. I mean, those are, those are the best, I mean, those are the kind of things that we're we're used to, or so, you know, familiar with, or really employee engagement surveys, even turnover, looking at, you know, people leaving the company and what's their tenure with the company. Are some of those ways. So as we think about it, you know, why are people staying in? Kind of thing, you know, it's one thing to ask to have an exit plan or an exit interview, but what about a stay interview to ask the question of your employees, like, Why do you stay here? You have opportunities. You have options, kind of thing, you know? So it's a little bit different when we think about doing business as a ministry and how we measure success, because it's not necessarily about ROI, return on investment, in, in, in our cases, it's about Roe, kind of return on eternity, which are really around culture and caring kind of things, right? So some of the, I mean, some of the obvious things might be just things like generosity. You know, where, what are we being generous around from a from $1 value, you know, what are we giving our time and treasure to? It could be, what are we volunteering for? Kind of thing, you know, are we giving time to ministries, or whether it be homeless shelters or food banks, or what have you like that, you know, what are we doing to serve others. Kind of thing we you know, that's a metric that we can track. It could be, you know, if you've got chaplains, you know, how many visits are they making and how many people are they talking to? You know, our chaplain organizations provide those kind of metrics for us. It could be, you know, what else are we doing within C 12? It's not uncommon for for a business to have what we call a care team, people within the organization who kind of just have the pulse of the the organization, and they know when somebody's hurting, maybe when somebody's just had a baby, or, you know, somebody's got somebody in the hospital, and they can facilitate, whether it be sending diapers to the to the house of the newborn, kind of thing, or providing meals or whatever that is. You know, those are things we could track. You know, is, what are we again? What are we doing to support our employees? All of our employees have families, for example, you know, that are deserving of care. So what are we doing to give back to them, kind of thing. So some of those are metrics, you know, but the biggest thing is around culture, you know, I love, you know, one of the things that we do is within our businesses, is something we call a 360 degree interview, where we'll a number of our employee a number of our business owners, will go and and talk to the employees of one of their peers and one of the other businesses within the group, and they'll ask a series of questions. And one of the obvious questions is like, it's, are the owner's faith? Is their owner, the owner's faith evident within the business, you know? And for many of them, it is, you know. They'll pray at the leadership meetings, maybe their mission, vision, values, talk about their faith, or they'll talk about God, for example. But it's interesting, just around the culture in the way that they feel cared for, it's not uncommon to hear this place just feels like family, that I know that people care for me here, for example, one of our business owners, I was talking to one of their employees last week, and they mentioned they were going to really go through a really hard time. And they said they brought him into the office and just said, can I pray for you? I mean, they knew that this person had just lost their mom, for example, and they said, Would it be okay if I prayed for you? You know, that's kind of cool. You know, another example, I have a business owner within our group that's home services. So they do HVAC repair, they do plumbing, they do electrical services, they do appliance repair, fireplace repair, all of those kind of things. And you know, my house is just like everybody else's. I have breakdowns where I have to have my air conditioning tuned up. And when their employees are here, I'll talk to them, and I'll just say, like, how long have you been with the organization? And they'll, they'll share, and they'll, you know, that business is very competitive, and people have the opportunity to go anywhere they want and to name their price, if you will. But, you know, they'll talk like, this is just the best place in the world. I mean, they feel cared for, you know? And it's like, there's no way I'm leaving this company, and that's, that's the biggest measure, is, you know, when people love doing what they do, and they love the business that they're in, and they feel that they're invested in that company, that's a big deal.

Speaker 1  29:13  
Have you ever had a situation where a CEO wanted to scale their

David Bush  29:19  
business and they started making some decisions that were in line with their faith and the values that they have, and it caused maybe some ripple effects in a negative way, where maybe they lost a key employee, or they lost a business client or customer. And how do you talk somebody through that challenge or difficult season? Yeah, I

Greg Atchison  29:43  
think, you know, it starts with just, you know, knowing that not everybody is going to agree with your faith kind of thing. And the key would be just again, to ask for permission, kind of thing, but then just to say that, you know, you can only do what God's asked you to do, that ultimately we're going to be held accountable. To him. So just as a reminder that, you know, C 12 or running a Christian led business is not for everybody, but again, they want, they want to be served well, you know, whether it be their clients, for example, they still want great service, you know. So the bottom line is, our job is just to serve them well, and if we're not doing that, then they deserve to move on, right or if it's employees, if they don't feel that we're caring for them, then they have every right to go someplace else where they feel like they're cared for. But one just remind them that, you know, there are options, but for us, we just need to be faithful to the Lord and to say it's his business, you know, I just need to keep doing what he's asked me to do.

David Bush  30:51  
Yeah, sure, takes a lot of pressure off when you have that mentality. And I'm sure that there's probably different levels, when you come in to a like C 12 peer advisory, that you probably have people that are all the way on a level 10 when it comes down to that level of thinking, and then you probably got some people that are maybe a three or four that haven't fully given up control. What's the old story about the guy that with the garden, where he's out there and he's cultivating the garden, and he starts talking about all the fruit that's being coming from the garden and the vegetables. And person says, Well, in reality, this is really God's garden, and what God has done to bless you is pretty amazing. And he turns around and says, Well, you should have seen it when, when he was in charge of it, you know? I mean, there is a sense of ownership with actual creation of, you know, resources or processes and things of that nature. And so I'm kind of curious, how do you coach a CEO through that navigation process of really learning to let go and let God take ownership of the success and failure of the business, and allowing them to, you know, release some of their kung fu grip and take a vacation and do some of the things that a lot of business owners and CEOs don't do, because they do feel like it's their personal responsibility to be a workaholic and to work all the time.

Greg Atchison  32:11  
Yeah, and, you know, part of it is one just to remind them that we only have so much capacity, right? So part of it would be just under you know, I challenge our business owners. I'm like, you know, our job is to work ourselves out of a job that's our number one job is for us to be developing leaders to come alongside us so that we can move on and do the things that only we should be doing as leaders, right? So for us to be thinking about, what are those things within our organizations that could be delegated to somebody else so that I'm only doing the things that God's blessed me with from a gifts and talents perspective? And if we're going to grow the business, for example, and the title of this was all around business growth, if we're going to grow and expand the business to respond to whatever God's asking us to do. We have to be aware that we only have so much capacity. So how do we expand the tent, if you will, beyond that? And it really comes down to, you know, learning the gifts and talents of our employees and then figuring out how we put, you know, Jim Collins talks about having the right people on the bus and making sure they're in the right seat, kind of thing, right? So for us to figure out what are the the right seats for each of those people, and then to make sure that we get them in the right places and then let them flourish, you know, that's what you know. Anytime we can exercise our God given gifts, so much the better. So for us to be able to figure out what are those, and then to put them in the right places, because then they feel fulfilled, you know, and they get a chance to be more invested in the company and to kind of treat it like their own.

David Bush  33:53  
That's so good. One of the participants asked a question, how to live in our true self, divine image in the business world, versus a job title, anything that you could share with that,

Greg Atchison  34:10  
you know, I think it comes down to, really, where's our identity, you know, and that's, that's the thing that we have to deal with is, you know, I'm called to be, you know, I'm called to be a Christian, 24/7 I'm called to be one of his children, 24/7 and, oh, by the way, he's also given me this job to run. So first and foremost, you know, my number one goal is to bless, or to be a blessing to him, right, to make him smile. So that means that we have to get over the fact that I'm a CEO, or I'm a president, or I'm the owner or a founder of a company, and just to say, number one, I'm a child of God, right? And I also have this business, the steward, Steward, stewardship means that I don't own it kind of thing, right? So. We have to get over ourselves around that, and whether I fail or succeed in this business, it doesn't matter, because we want to please Him and we want to succeed. But ultimately, you know, our assurance is not in the businesses that we have, but just being faithful and the fact that he's already paid that price for us.

David Bush  35:20  
So good. I know we're getting close on time. We got another 10 minutes or so. So I want to get through a couple of these other questions. How about another question from participants is, how do you know how best to hand off the business in succession when there's no heir apparent that's there and you're looking to sell the business, but you want to make sure that it's a match from a faith perspective, so that the legacy carries on, and that the traditions and all the things that you've instilled are continued on after you're gone.

Greg Atchison  35:58  
Yeah, that's that's a really great question and a big challenge, I think, for a lot of business owners, right? So, you know, if you've, if you've worked hard to build a business where we think about business as a ministry, you've instilled within the com, the company, you know, your values and the mission is around, you know, pleasing God and being faithful to Him, you've built a you build a foundation of faith, for example, and then when it's time to exit the business, you know, unless it's a family run business, for example, you know, and in your you know, your your team or people, similarly, you know of same faith kind of thing, it's hard to pick up and to leave and still feel comfortable with leading. So in some cases, you know, it might be turning to an ESOP, for example, where you've, you know, I mean, you've developed a team that kind of believes in everything that you've done to invest in this company and and you turn it over to them, kind of thing. But when you don't know, I mean, the best thing you can do is really to invest, really do your due diligence when you're selling the business, right? So you help that, you hope that the next person coming alongside that's going to purchase the business is somebody who can honor those things. But in today's environment where there are private equity, you know, venture capital, people buying companies, that can be a challenge, right? You know, within C 12, we have something called the 310 coalition. So this is a group of business owners, but also people who who are interested in buying businesses or investing in businesses, who sign a covenant to say, I'm going to honor the cultures that have been created in those businesses. So whether they're acquiring a business, they're making a commitment to say, you know, we're going to stand by everything that that founder did to build their faith into their business, and they make that commitment, or whether they're investing heavily into that business, again, that covenant will say that we're going to honor those kind of things. But beyond that, it's just a really around, you know, doing the due diligence, you know, to be really clear about this is what this company was built on, and but then you have to trust that they're going to hold to that. But there's no there's no guarantees. There are.

David Bush  38:17  
There no sir, a couple more questions here. This one's a really, I think it's a challenging question, and it's, what's the biggest mistake Christian leaders make when scaling could you nail it down to one? I don't,

Greg Atchison  38:33  
I don't know that there's one challenge, you know, I think it's really around a number of things. One is just really around investing in the culture. You know, businesses that fail as they scale are those that have not invested heavily in their culture. They've not invested heavily in the character of their team, for example, just the values within that team. And they've not invested within the leadership of that team, you know, leadership. I mean, the growth of the company can outpace the leadership of the company, right? Which will be a challenge. So it really comes down to being really clear about, you know, we're going to scale this business, but the things that are going to hold it back are our culture and our leadership capabilities. So until we've got those nailed down, you know, we're not ready to grow.

David Bush  39:25  
Yeah, that's great. And Jonathan makes a comment here, I've been a part of C 12 for about four years. And I think the thing that stood out the most early on was that I had never thought about setting goals and benchmarks for ministry. That's a PowerPoint. Everybody sets revenue goals, but setting ministry and people goals helps you to realize really why God has placed us here. So great comment by Jonathan on that if you were to give again, keeping it simple with just one thing, which is hard, I'm sure, because you've got a lot of experience, you're a certified coach with a lot of experience in business. But. If you were to give one bit of advice, I heard Lou Holtz tell another sportscaster that the best advice he could give him is to make sure your kids see that you value your their mom. And that was one thing that this sportscaster remembered about Lou Holtz. So I'm going to put you on the line here, coach. And if you were to say the one thing that you could give it as advice to become a better Christian business leader, beyond the idea of giving up ownership and being a steward of the business. Because I think that repetition has gotten to all of us. It's gotten me for sure to be reminded of that what's, what's the one thing that you would tell those that are watching this video to help them to become a better Christian business leader.

Greg Atchison  40:44  
Yeah, I think, I think the the bottom line, the kind of, the one thing is you don't have to choose between building a strong business and being faithful to Christ. That you can do both right, that you need to have the right team around you. Leadership, the leadership's just too weighty, and scaling is too demanding. To do it in isolation. We need to be around others, right? Paul reminds us, you know that around the church. He says, you know, you think about the bodies as you know, there's a thumb and there's eyes and there's toes and all of those things and all of us are needed to build the kingdom, if you will. In this case, we need talent around us to hold us accountable, to give us insight, to share their learnings, and at the same time, we have an opportunity to pour into others. You know that that we get a chance to work with

David Bush  41:36  
fantastic see Jim made a comment here, measurement and metrics. I love the C 12 monthly personal check in on a different aspects of our personal health and stewardship of the time, talents and treasure he has blessed us with, each of us with, also the caring metrics, both great ways to gage our impact and progress. And yeah, he said that maybe you would be able to share those with others. I don't know if that's a free resource that you can then can pass along, but let's talk a little bit about if somebody was interested in just learning more about how they can integrate their faith into their business and become a Christian business leader without compromising their faith. What's the next best step for that person? Yeah, I would

Greg Atchison  42:20  
say one or two things. One is to go to the corporate website at C 12 forums.com, you know. And you can do some exploring there, and you can ask questions. And we'll also give you a chance to point, you know, if not knowing where everybody's joining us from, but I know there are from some from the Greater St Louis area, for example. You know, for them to say that they'd like to know more about what's going on in St Louis, you know. So one is go to our C 12 forums.com, kind of thing. Also, C 12 of Greater St Louis is another website that they could be checking out. But as Jim's talked about, you know, he talked about measuring kind of thing. So every month, our business owners are going to get together and they're going to do an assessment of their own. They're going to say, how is my walk with God on a scale of one to 10? What does my walk with God look like? You know? They're going to ask, be asked the question, you know, what does my marriage look like? What does my relationship with my family look like? What does it look like around fitness and nutrition and rest and relaxation and fun and recreation kind of thing? So, you know, we get so consumed with our businesses, but ultimately, they're just one piece. They're not who we are, right? That we are much more than that. And that's, you know, the point that Jim's made. And then he also talked about the caring matrix and the carrying matrix is simply to say that, you know, all of our businesses, we have employees. We have those employees have families. We're part of a larger community. We have vendors and contractors and suppliers, all of those, and they all have physical needs. They all have emotional needs and spiritual needs. So to think about, you know, our employees, how can we help them from a physical perspective, you know, just making sure that they're got good benefits and adequately paid so they're not working two and three jobs. You know, maybe emotional needs are having a counselor available if they're going through a really tough time kind of thing or spiritual needs, might be just taking that moment to pray with them, right? Or to have a chaplain, for example, available for them. So those are some examples of that caring matrix is to think through. You know, what do our families need? How can we as businesses? How can we support those families of the employees? If you're in a home air conditioning business and it's 100 degrees out, we're going to be working those employees 60 or 70 hours a week. So what can we do for the families that don't have dad or mom around the house, for example? Right kind of thing? So those are the kind of things. That Jim's alluding to there. Yeah, I love

David Bush  45:03  
those strategies, and you're really getting us all thinking a little bit more about things that we can do, versus telling ourselves that we can't do certain things, because a lot of those things are don't take a lot of resources. It's just a matter of taking a little bit of time. And I think that you've helped all of us to understand the return on investment of time and money for a C 12 group, because being a part of that, you're going to end up gaining so much wisdom. You're going to get some coaching, you're going to get the peer advisory, and you're just going to get the encouragement and resources to guide you through the process of becoming a more successful business and a more significant business in terms of eternal impact. So Greg, thanks so much for joining us today. The content that you shared today was so valuable, and for those people that are in the Greater St Louis area, make sure that you go take a visit to C 12 Greater St louis.com that website will give you all the contact information that you need for Greg and the resources on the C 12 organization, and for those of you that are watching a video of this, if you're outside the area, you can still visit the website and reach out to Greg. He can get you connected with a local C 12 group in your area. So thanks so much everybody for joining us. If you were here live, if you're watching a recording of this would you share this recording with another business owner or C suite level leader that you think could benefit, because we'd love to be able to expand the mission and the kingdom. So thanks so much, Greg, and thanks everybody for participating. Thanks for tuning in to the Business Builders playbook. If this episode gave you some plays that you can start running in your business today. Hit subscribe and share with another revenue leader who's tired of the pipeline grind. Building Predictable Revenue isn't something you figure out alone. Whether you're looking to automate your prospecting with bdr.ai, or you just want to talk through the growth challenges you're facing, reach out. We help business leaders just like you, to build systems that actually scale. And if you're ready to stop being your company's Highest Paid Prospector, let's have a conversation. Reach out to us@bdr.ai until next time, let's keep building you.