Greg King—Christian CEO Secrets to Win in Business Without Losing What Matters Most

Greg King  0:00  
I think God has a way of bringing those things out. When we're truly seeking His will, we're truly seeking to lead this business as He would have us to lead it. Then He's going to find the ways to get those questions to us, or to to bring us to a point of reliance on Him. What wisdom is He really trying to share with us through these different sources.

David Bush  0:23  
Welcome to the Business Builders Playbook, the show that breaks down the systems and strategies behind predictable revenue growth to win in business. In each episode, we're diving into the proven strategies that separate the winners who scale from the losers who fail. This show is sponsored by BDR AI, the AI-powered business development platform that automates your outbound prospecting, so you can focus in on closing deals instead of chasing leads. Let's get started. All right, well, welcome everybody. My name is David, and I get a chance to be your host and moderator for this exciting Q and A event on the topic: Christian CEO secrets to win in business without losing what matters most. And wow, that's such a a powerful, powerful title for this exciting conversation with Greg King. If you don't know Greg King already, he is a tremendous friend, a tremendous coach. He's also a C12 peer advisory chair, and we'll ask him a little bit more about his role there. He's also retired Army Colonel. Thank you for your service, Greg. And he's an executive coach. And this live unscripted conversation is specifically designed for Christian business owners who are serious about winning in business and staying anchored to what matters most. So we've collected questions from all the people that have shown interest, man, we're so blown away by all the people that showed interest in this particular topic. So we're excited to dive in and jump into the questions. But before we do that, Greg, I'd love for everybody to learn a little bit more about what has brought us to this point today in Greg King's life, and maybe some of the experiences and lessons learned. Maybe you could share a little bit about what brought you into becoming a C 12 peer advisory chair, and what you're excited about sharing today.

Greg King  2:10  
Okay, thanks, thanks, David. Yeah, so David kind of gave you a thumbnail there. That's that about wrapped it up. But I'll tell you, one of the things that really impacted me a lot throughout my career, in my marriage and in my family with with our daughter, was the fact that everything I get to do in C 12 now to come alongside business owners and walk with them through their their leadership journey, I made a lot of the mistakes that they're making or have made or trying to remedy now. I didn't do it well for a lot of years, and fortunately, along the way, I I had a mentor that modeled it. He he showed you what it looked like, and I was able to watch him learn. And as in the military, I was very very focused in business during my business career, I started to begin to figure out how to do it, what it looked like, and how I could apply it in my life. And that's where really started to see some some changes personally and in my marriage and in our family. But I would just say that my biggest passion is just being able to come alongside folks and allow them to find it a lot earlier than I did, because I tell you, since since I did begin to to get get my steps ordered and and kind of get my act cleaned up, they've really been the the best years of of a 40 year marriage and the best years as a family with our daughter, and I just hate to see other people go a long time or never come to that point where they're able to find that balance and they're able to find those tools and really the secrets to doing it well and doing it as a steward for Jesus Christ. So, how was that, David?

David Bush  4:00  
That's fantastic.

Greg King  4:01  
Started okay.

David Bush  4:02  
That's that's getting that's putting gas on the fire, man. I'm looking forward to jumping in there. And you know, you have had some significant experience in the military sector. You've also had experience in the corporate world. You've also had success as a entrepreneur, and you've been working alongside of business owners. And so, I'm just curious about the different environments that you've been in, and what have they taught you in terms of leadership pressure and responsibility? Because I'm sure they've been differed, differed, and varied in those different worlds. But what could you share with us about them?

Greg King  4:35  
Well, yeah, they have been. I mean, in the military, obviously, people knew what we did. My family understood what I did, and they understood the the things that would happen during the course of a year, or would happen around the world, and things like that. And so, there, at least with the military, there was a mission focus, and there were, you know, just a lot of mission outcomes riding on things, and so there was a. Certain bit of understanding in business. I really I struggled early on because I tried to apply that that same methodology, and I really did put everything into business to the exclusion of everything else. And you know, in business, instead of it being sort of there, there are outcomes and there are expectations and things, but now we're into some things that are that are you know fairly personal. You're making decisions now that are affecting families and you're affecting employee livelihoods and sometimes making decisions that, in some cases, can can be really Really, just sort of esoteric. I mean, we may make decisions to to claw back a penny a share or to be able to do something to affect a stock price, things like that. And it were it was those kind of decisions that over time began to really make me take a deep look at at what was driving things that I was doing, and I could do a better job, or what what God was really calling me to do, whether He was calling me to be in that line of work or not, and it was actually through that search and through some some dissonance that I sort of had personally that I found C 12, and realized that when I changed careers and got a business that that we would own in our family, I wanted to be in C 12, and it was just through that learning process process that I realized I didn't just want to be in C 12; I wanted to actually do what C 12 did as C 12 chair, and it really has been a a very fulfilling time for me, and and an opportunity for me to be able to maybe kind of give back a lot of what I did did poorly for a lot of years.

David Bush  6:56  
Yeah, yeah, I think that we could all you know go back and change a few things and have a little bit more significance than success, and I know that was one of the big things that I was asked about 35 years of age. I can remember the Christian CEO coach asking me a question, saying, "Hey, Dave, do you think that you're more successful than you are significant, and is that okay with you? And I was that that question hit hard for me, and so really understanding how I could end up making a pivot, and it was him guiding me to becoming more significant and successful. And I didn't realize that the two of those could coexist. I thought I had to, you know, be really focused on success. But I know that you sit across from a lot of successful CEOs and business owners, and I'm I'm curious, what are some of the hidden struggles that you see that most other people around them never really notice.

Greg King  7:45  
You know, one of the big things that, and it's actually we've debated it around our tables sometimes, but it's this thing about isolation, and sometimes it's even hard to admit that that we could feel isolated, at least in the in the army, in whatever role I was in, there were other folks in those roles. Maybe not in my unit or not in my space, but there were other folks doing what I did, and so I had a, I had a little bit of a network to be able to run run things by. In a lot of businesses, especially a lot of private businesses, a lot of the owners and CEOs experience a lot of isolation. They don't have someone to talk to. They don't have someone to run something by, or maybe offer some advice or some counsel. Oftentimes, they're they're having to make make some difficult decisions, and they just don't have a sounding board. And even if you you look at folks trusted folks in their church or trusted folks in their small groups or in a in a Bible study something like that, they're still not men or women who are in a similar position in their work, and so they really can't run those decisions by them or get some counsel that would help them, you know, sort of square the circle or circle square, whatever they're going to do. But you know, that's just it's it's hard, and that that isolation thing truly ends up being one of the biggest things that we see. How how leaders are going to focus themselves and how they're really going to go from. I mean, one thing they've got to protect themselves from is over time, as the business begins to grow and the business begins to get a little successful, it can take on life of its own, and that just adds to the isolation because in many cases, the demands of the business start to push that owner in directions that may actually be leading them away from their spouse, or may be be creating some distance in their family because of the hours they're working, or the fact that they just can't turn it off when they come home at night. It's a tough go. I have a lot more respect for small. Business owners now than I ever did before. I don't think most folks really appreciate just what business owners around the country, what they represent, what they they sacrifice in order to do that, and it's it's it's a tough road. It's tough job. Yeah, and I know

David Bush  10:22  
that one of the things that I know you're passionate about is helping people to understand that it's not necessarily their responsibility to make the business successful. They're a steward of the business rather than thinking that it all depends on them. And that's one of the things I know you share with others, but a lot of leaders will oftentimes fall into complacency, which is defined the act of becoming self-satisfied, unaware of possible dangers, and we don't even oftentimes realize that we are drifting into those dangers, and and it don't always look dangerous when we're in the drift, but if we don't make the shift, oftentimes there's negative consequences. So what what does that drift typically look like in real life, and what are some of those consequences that will come about if the drift continues and they don't shift?

Greg King  11:17  
One of the things about what it looks like is it looks like a very gradual movement. It's it's rarely really dramatic. It's just small things, and small things over time, date nights begin to to disappear. You know that that person that that is leading the business, whether it's the husband or the wife. You know, days get longer. They leave earlier. They may be gone before the kids are up. They may get home after the families have dinner, and just there's just this slow drift. That over time, it's so gradual that over time, it's it's in some cases it's hard to to notice or or have it be anything impactful where you really start to to take some steps to to cut it off, and unfortunately, in families, you know, kids begin to see that you know the business is more important, or the business is where mom or dad's focus is, and so I need to I need to do those things just not to add to to their load, I need to just kind of keep my head down and and do what I can do. And so then you start to get this this separation in families, and and I already mentioned the the marriages. You know, just that's really one of the heartbreaking things for me is to see. It's very obvious from the outside to look in and to see it. It's very hard from the inside to see what that's doing to a to a marriage or to a relationship, because so often we we tend to rationalize it or explain in a way that well it's just a season you know this is this is it's required because it's this or it's that and we're gonna we're gonna push hard here for a period. We're going to get through it, and this can be, and then we'll be back to normal, and we'll go do this or we'll go do that. But it's just one season after another season. You know, new challenges come up, and new new challenges become new seasons, and so it over time just gets to be a very pervasive problem in those families, and unfortunately, in companies, you know, we're talking. I talk a lot about families, but I mean, in the companies, you know, the over time, one of the the drifts is that the leaders start to see themselves more and measure themselves more against the growth of the business, or the performance of the business, or what's our net profit, or what's our revenue, and they begin to take that on as an identity. So now there's a lot riding those particular data points, and the more pressure that that creates for that leader, well, then they they start to pull back even inside the business because again, nobody really understands it like I do, and so they just get deeper and deeper into trying to solve problems, but not do anything to bring down their facade any or not not show any kind of vulnerability. They don't want folks outside the business to suspect that maybe they're struggling with something, that there's some softness or some weakness in some area, and so they they you know keep it away from them, and you know over time now you've got folks inside the business that realize that that boss is harder and harder to talk to. He or she may be just in in kind of pulling back, it may be tougher and tougher to get time with them. They may be a little shorter in their their patience with you know waiting for answers or needing you know particular things, and just over time, it just it's it's affecting them at home. It's affecting. In business, the culture of the business is starting to change a little, and so that that drift, while it's it's it's a little bit, it's just a little bit at a time. Over time, you've probably heard the analogies where, you know, you send a boat out.

Greg King  15:18  
You know, one degree is not much, but one degree over a long distance is an awful lot, and that's what happens: is when something catastrophic or you know real business change starts to happen. That's when you come up for air and you realize I wanted to go here, and I'm actually pointed over there now, and it's it's really some terrific consequences, or some you know a lot of a lot of work has to be done to try to get them back onto course.

David Bush  15:51  
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Greg King  17:20  
Well, C 12. What we're trying to do is is go ahead and acquaint owners with and get them oriented to the fact that it's it's not growth, it's not revenue, it's not performance, etc. But what they need to be doing is focusing on stewardship. You know what is what is God calling you to do with the business that He owns that he's allowing you to steward. Then, what is good stewardship with that business? Then the the metrics start to change. The things that you focus on start to change. It's not just about growth. Now it's is this growth that's healthy for the business? Is this growth that's healthy for our team inside the business, is this growth that's healthy for my family and for my marriage? You know, those are things now that when you start to look at at the business that way, now you know every every new opportunity isn't something we're going to pursue at all costs, because you know every every new opportunity is it going to be good for the business, or may not be good for the business? And so we really, or you really want to have that stewardship mindset, so that they can just really hone in on what would God have me do here? What's the wise thing to do here? And what are those things that would actually add to the culture or sustain our culture inside our walls, and would you know continue? We would continue to be the business that people know us to be because of good stewardship, and not just trying to grow at all costs, trying to 10x just for the the sake of 10x Because if we 10x then people outside the business will think I'm a great leader. They'll, you know, they'll they'll sort of put us on a little higher plane maybe than someone else. But in fact, what they may be doing is is actually destroying fundamentals inside the business, doing things to damage their team, doing things to damage the family, their marriage. So it's it's really kind of kind of looking at it with a much bigger picture, and looking at it as God would would look at it, where you are stewarding this business He owns, and He's asking you to make these wise decisions.

David Bush  19:35  
I'd love to challenge the viewers if you're watching this live or watching this as a recording. I'd love to get your feedback on this particular question, based upon Greg's definition of what he just shared about winning in business without losing what matters most. If 10 on a score of 10 to 110, was winning, and you were not losing what matters most, and. One was losing what matters most. What kind of a score would you give yourself today? I'm curious to know because I think that being honest and assessing where we stand today, then we can go back and have a conversation about okay, what happened, what did we want to have happen, what's missing, and then we can come up with a plan and what's next. And I know that that's one of the big things that you like to talk about when you're working with CEOs is helping them to answer those questions about where are they, and then where do they want to be,

Greg King  20:30  
and then what do they need to do to close that gap. So one of the questions that we got from participants was, why do so many high capacity leaders rationalize an unhealthy pace and pressure as just a season. You mentioned that just earlier, but I want you to go a little bit deeper on that. Is is it because they're eternal eternal optimists, or is it truly because they have the wrong focus and the wrong goal as what is success for them? Yeah, my opinion revealed it. It probably gets more into the misplaced identity. So it begins it. It begins to be that they are what this business does. And so, you know, again, if you're looking at sales, if you're looking at perform, you know, performance earnings per share, you know, stock, all the different types of metrics that folks look at with a business. If that becomes the only thing that's in our in our frame of reference, you know that that takes us off into to it could take us off into some bad directions. I had I had a member at one point. Gosh, they were a member for several years, and through several different core business presentations, where they would present their business to their their peer board, one of the things that was always obvious that stood out was that when they started, they had a sweet spot where it was a it was a father and two sons, and a and a few other guys, and they they had a business where they could take a lot of pride in their craftsmanship. They were all master, you know, craftsmen in the kinds of things that they did, and they could they could accept the kind of projects at the times of year that worked for them. They could do these projects. Take you know they were done with excellence, so there was just some some pride of the craftsmanship that they could have, but they could also plan their their work around going you know going to Wyoming and hunting bears or going someplace and hunting elk is what they love to do, and yet somebody came to them and said, "Hey, look, I could I could get you access to some GCs and some general contractors, and I could get you access to a workforce of of immigrants that and you could 10x this thing, and they did in short order. They 10x their business, and year after year with that 10x business, the net profit was the same. You know, they they they had 10x more problems. They had 10x more frustrations. They were not getting to go do those things that just was was just so healthy for for this family to go do. And yet, it was all about what I want to be a 15 or $20 million company? I don't want to be a $2 million company because it was just you know how people will look at me, and it's just that's just sad, you know. But there's you know when you work in performance and you work in growth and revenue, those kinds of things. Now you bring in fear of failure. You know, what if I don't? You know, and and am I really am I really who I think I am, or am I really who people think I am? Because this business is growing at a breakneck pace. Am I really that good? I mean, I mean, truly, am I just in the right place at the right time in the right industry, or is there something about what I'm doing in this business that is exceptional, or that God is honoring in some way because of what I'm doing? And and it's just a you know it's just a a you know it's just a hamster weave you know that keeps them going as opposed to finding out okay we one of the things we teach in C 12 is this concept of robust good health, you know. So, so what is that in your company for what your core values are, for what your mission, vision, and values are for you? What's the sweet spot where everything is just? I mean, it's just everything's kind of purring, you know. The engines just just running perfectly, you know, and everybody's in their sweet spot. Everybody is, they've, they're fulfilled in their jobs. You've got a happy team.

Greg King  24:49  
You've got a strong culture. What is that for your company? You know, is that 10 million? Is that 5 million? Is it 1 million? Is it 150 million? Then how about? Build the company to achieve robust good health, and another another concept we've taught over time is how big is big enough, and because it goes hand in hand with robust good health. You know, are you building for other people, or are you are you building truly for for what it is God's called you to do? You know, this business that He's called you to to to build or to steward. There's there's a number there where if you're doing it and you're doing it well, then you're also able to to strengthen your marriage. You're also able to strengthen your your family. You're able to do those things with your kids. You're able to be at games. You know all the things that allow you to pour into others, those things that are most important to you, and and we would argue that that's that's biblical principles and that's that's teaching out of God's word, you know. Or are you in a in a position where the business requires you to be there till 9o'clock at night, you know? Because I've I've had members I've had members and and prospects tell me different times. Well, God's blessing us. You know, I have to do this because God's blessing us. I can't turn away business. Um, you know, I would I would just argue. You know, if if you're not getting home till 9o'clock every night and you've got three or four or five kids, um, maybe that's not God that's blessing, you know. Maybe, maybe somebody else is bringing some of that. Our founder Buck Jacobs, you know, he's a he is a terrific guy. He's like he's mid 80s or upper 80s, but but years ago I heard him say, if a man has a price, the enemy's willing to pay it, and I think lots of times that's who's that's who's sort of you know kind of kind of bringing a lot of that business and revenue things like that to a business that gets these these men and women so far off the mark and so far off on a tangent chasing growth or chasing performance, or chasing you know a bigger a bigger company or a you know more territory to steward whatever.

David Bush  27:10  
Yeah, the the question was why do so many high capacity leaders rationalize unhealthy pace and pressure as just a season? And I love that phrase, rational lies. You know, we tell ourselves these rational lies and rational lies. And you know, many people have said the term. You know, how you see it is how you do it. And I would say that most business owners and CEOs haven't seen other Christian CEOs, business owners, doing it the way you're talking about it, and so they they do what they they model what they did to get them to where they're at, not necessarily to get them to where they want to be. And I think that that's one of the power of the collective intelligence of a C12 group is that you actually get a chance to be surrounded by other people that are in the same seat as you, maybe in a different industry, but they're the ones that are actually doing the things that you're talking about. They're working towards this idea of a healthy pace and not taking on all the pressure and not continuing to tell themselves rational lies about what's acceptable and what's okay, and and and really maybe shifting the perspective. And so, you know, another question we got from one of our participants is in the same line. But it's at what point does ambition stop serving a leader and start quietly controlling them? How would you answer that question?

Greg King  28:40  
I don't know. I could, you know, you probably notice I tend to lose my train of thought sometimes and go off on my tangents. But gosh, that's a that's a I don't know. That's a that's a that's a difficult one. I mean, I I think that the identity gets wrapped up in that one again. Yeah, give it to me again.

David Bush  29:02  
At what point does ambition stop serving a leader and start quietly controlling them?

Greg King  29:10  
Yeah, I think when when they they just get bought into that growth and momentum, and when they they have allowed maybe their their relationship with God to get very transactional, so that it's it's just about God's going to bless me if I do this, or it's and I then that's when I I'd have to think about that one. I'd have to I could probably write some if if and if there's somebody in particular that asks that one, I'd be happy to to answer that or even even share it with others. I just think you know unchecked ambition it it probably ignores discernment. One of the things we we talk about in C 12 is discernment. You know we want. We want members to use the power of that peer table to help them with their discernment and to really think these things through, run them through the lens of God's word, run them through the lens of of like-minded believers, pray things like that, and really trust that discernment process. Not rush into it. Not, not you know, pursue it just because it seems like that's the thing to do. Or if I don't do it, someone else will. But really, to press into the discernment. And gosh, I think I think leaders need to be, you know, need to be asking themselves and constantly, kind of repeating and thinking through just what's wise. You know, is that the wise thing to do? Because there's just there are so many times when folks have had a a great business and then they've had something come along that just looks too good to to pass up on, or it's going to give me an entirely new market for I don't want someone else to get it, and they rush into it without the discernment, without considering this truly a wise thing to do, and in some cases ends up being the undoing of the business, all because they didn't, they you know they just kind of let the ambition run the show.

David Bush  31:24  
Yeah, that's why I think it's so important to be able to have that conversation. You know, with someone like yourself, Greg, is to you know really get clear on what matters most, and to you know have a clearly defined outcome that you're working towards that's mission driven. Yes, it may have some measurements that helps you to determine whether you're off course or on course. But if you you know if you don't have a clear vision and you're not in a constant conversation with the Lord about what it is that you're trying to accomplish, it really easy it really is easy to fall prey to patterns of ambition and success, and being able to one up the competition or to dominate. And I always wonder about the story about Nehemiah. You know, was Nehemiah ambitious? Was he was he really had this idea, like, hey, I'm just a cup bearer, and you know, I I'd love to be the person that ends up taking the taking the town back and rebuilding it, you know, and or was he really just a person that was called to a purpose and really understood that mission and that purpose? Because obviously he had to go through a lot of imbalances. He missed a lot of ball games for his kids, you know, building those walls and rebuilding it. But that was a a season of significance for the Jewish people, and I don't know if there's anything there that would be helpful for us to leverage as a form of helping us to understand, you know, calling versus ambition. But any thoughts on that?

Greg King  32:55  
Well, what what what came to mind for me as you're telling that story, and it is an interesting one. We can use it for a lot of different leadership leadership lessons. But what I was thinking about was just this: the fact we we talk about the power of the table in C 12. So we're going to you read a table with with you know anywhere from 10 to 14 peers, different industries, no competitors, companies of all sizes, and so now what you find is is is when someone has a challenge or someone is is seeking discernment, trying to to make a decision on something. Now you have a lot of different voices to speak into that, to ask some questions. We even say in in C 12, we're gonna you're gonna come. You're gonna get your questions answered, but you're also gonna get your answers questioned, because lots of times folks come and they decide I'm gonna do this, and then folks ask some some very wise questions on. Okay, have you considered this? Because again, when you got a table with with 1210, to To 14 folks at it, 12 people ideally, right? Somebody's either been there and done it well, or been there and done it poorly, or has has has known someone or had somebody in his his orbit that has has kind of been there and done it, and so you're you're able to leverage their wisdom. You're able to leverage their experience, and again, it's companies of different sizes. So now you sort of get okay. If I were in your position, these are the things I would consider, and a lot of times that that sends folks back to the drawing board because what seemed like a slam dunk or what seemed like the you know the smart thing to do with just one or two or three really wise questions you know deep questions it it can make it can change the the just how easy that decision is to make and the interesting thing is is. We got companies of all sizes in C 12, and oftentimes, it the the wisest questions or the most cutting questions that get right to the heart of an issue can come from either the the least likely business, maybe because it's just, well, you know, why would they ever have to make that kind of decision? You know, a property management company, or you know, you name it, or can be from the smallest company, but it just takes one person saying, "Well, no, I don't, you know, "I don't, I don't get that. Help me, I'm just, I'm just a country boy from Franklin County. Help me understand that, you know, and and and it. Those questions were asked in all sincerity, by that particular member, but they made everybody sort of go, "Wow, nobody thought of that, you know. And that may well have been the thing that, had it been ignored or had it been, you know, not considered and and mitigated, might have been the thing that would scuttle the whole project, or scuttle the expansion, or scuttle the, you know, the new customer, whatever. So it's, I think God has a way of bringing those things out. When we're truly seeking His will, we're truly seeking to lead this business as He would have us to lead it. Then He's going to find the ways to get those questions to us or to to bring us to a point of reliance on Him, you know, in Astan, it's just going to be, it's going to mean slowing down, it's going to mean abiding, it's going to be you know seeking out what wisdom is is He really trying to share with us through these different sources. So it's kind of

David Bush  36:40  
yeah, that's a great test of faith. Is to slow down for an entrepreneur, business owner, CEO that is used to a very high pace and very low margin, and is running from one thing to the next, and actually having faith and trusting things that are unseen to take place, even without their hand being the thing that's actually creating it, and and going back to that question is you know you know what is it that you you are looking for? I heard a in that devotional today. I just heard the the comment about John 138 where he's identified as being the Lamb of God by John the Baptist's followers, and Jesus turns to him and says, "What are you looking for? What a great question, right? I mean, what a great question for all of us to answer the question. What are you looking for with your business? What are you looking for with your relationships? What are you looking for with your quality of life and your health, and man, if we just would focus on answering that question, we'd have a lot of clarity that we could run a lot of decisions through to determine whether or not they supported that or whether they were, you know, in conflict. Right,

Greg King  37:54  
right. Well, the C 12, you know, we're we're trying to we're trying to run great businesses, obviously, and we're trying to to build, you know, to to run and to to to lead businesses that that you know truly make a make a mark in the marketplace that are examples of of excellence because we want to you know we want Christian businesses to be marked by that excellence. We we have something we call business as a ministry, but we just we want the excellence of the business to be so strong that people are drawn to you, and when they're drawn to you, then they ask more questions. They want to know more about the business. But truly, what we what we want to see businesses do is over time really catch that vision for how God can use your business for ministry, because you've got folks inside the walls of your business that you know they're they're really your first mission field, and so we're able to to go ahead and invest in them, and they're able to to invest in those employees' families, and then the vendors and the you know the customers, all those different layers. You're running a great business, and you're running a business that is actually, you know, producing the the net income, things like that that you need to be able to to have programs. But then, in doing that, you're able to do ministry at all these different levels or these kind of concentric circles that really, you know, then then you have you have folks from the outside. They look in and they see us like, wow, you know, those guys they make the best widget on the market, but they also the the the things that that company does, you know, things those employees do, and then the way they treat their community, you know, all of those end up being a business that people are just drawn to, and you can you can look out in the marketplace and you can see companies like that, and then when you really start to to get into it, you know ideally or hopefully, the majority of those are going to be businesses that are led by believers or you know built on Christian. Principles, but that's that's truly success for me as a C 12 share is when when businesses get that heart for why they're they're doing what they're doing, you know, and they're they're stewarding their family well, and they have strong marriages, you know, and happy employees. Then you know that that's a business people want to be part of, and I think that's gonna be cool. I think that's good stewardship.

David Bush  40:29  
Yeah. Well, so moving into this next question is that how do you know when an opportunity is truly aligned with your calling versus just feeding acceleration or business growth. What do you use as a form of discernment?

Greg King  40:47  
We've got a tool we use inside C 12, and I think I think more than anything, we're gonna we're gonna start out through prayer. I mean, we're we're you know if you follow Henry Blackaby and experiencing God, or there, there are different sorts of frameworks and things. But you know, a lot of those, you know, talk about the different ways that God can help you discern some decision. And so, there's His Word. You know, there's prayer. There are other believers. There are, yeah, just there's like like five or six different ways that they will they will call out different ways that you can discern if you take your time, you abide and you work through this process. And it's it's interesting. Lots of times when you interview leaders that have made a horrible decision, and it could it could cost them their job, or it could just put them in a position of being very unhappy, very unfulfilled at work, and questioning why did I ever make that jump? Why did I leave what I was doing to come do this? And I know Richard Blackaby has shared this on on a couple of occasions, but he'll ask a guy like that and say, "You didn't have any indication this wasn't a good thing. He goes, "Well, no, you know. And he goes, "You didn't. What'd your wife think about? Oh, she hated it. Anybody else? You know, say anything about where my kids, my kids didn't think it was a good idea, and some people at church said this, and you know, it's just it was like they were hearing from all over the place. God was trying to speak through these different sources, different ways, and they still bowled ahead because it's just what they wanted to do. Because it was a great title, it was a great company, or you know, seemed like it would be a great company, things like that. I mean, we're really just called to to really seek seek God and seek what's the will for me in this thing, and then let me just slow down long enough. Let's let's. I would like to be in unity with my wife. My wife and I we we try to be in unity on major decisions, most decisions, hopefully. But you know, there's there's just if it's a big decision and we haven't we haven't got to that point where we're both comfortable, we just we stop or we you know either bow out of it or bow out of the decision totally or the opportunity, or we go ahead and and just take a pause, but we're not gonna on the on the strength of one of us say we're doing it because it's just it's really not God honoring. I don't think, and that check that check you have in your spirit is there for a reason. I don't know if I'm answering your questions, but no, that's

David Bush  43:41  
that's really good.

Greg King  43:42  
Me talk about things I love to talk about. So

David Bush  43:44  
yeah, that's great. Well, I know that you know, like when we drive in our car, we oftentimes have these warning lights that come up. You know, my dad said, you know, when the oil light comes on in your car, it's not a warning; it's a message of disaster. So we don't necessarily. we don't necessarily always have those indicators that are immediately visible to us. But what are some of the warning signs or the warning lights of that success is costing you more than a a leader realizes? I mean, you just mentioned a few things. Obviously, when you have negative feedback, but there's times when, as a leader, we have to go against the grain and we have to do things that our wives or our spouses or kids don't necessarily agree with to accomplish the mission and the purpose and the calling. So, what are some some simple warning signs or warning lights that we could be unaware of or on the on the on the lookout for,

Greg King  44:42  
well, so so feedback's what I'm. You kind of covered that one, but also even with feedback, you know, we've we've got those folks inside the company, or inside whatever it is, whatever our our our role is, we've got those folks that that are trusted agents. They're folks that when certain pe people speak, like EFF. You know, people listen, and so when when I hear when I hear negative things, or I hear some some some hesitation from some people in in my orbit that that work for me or work with me, that's the first thing I may hear. You may hear some negative things from a lot of folks, right? But there may not be folks that either have the information, or really that that trust it, or have the experience or the the wisdom to maybe speak into that. But right off the bat, when you're when you're hearing from folks you trust and and you truly listen to, that's one. When you start to see impacts inside the company, you know there are times we can do something, and you start to you start to see the leading edge of of the the wave that's to come. Right, that's a time to go ahead and take a good look at it because okay, if that's happening now and we're this just this far into it, okay, what is that? What what have I missed? What do we miss in that decision, or where did we shortcut something? We had a we had a case study that we showed to members once where we had a member company that just because of their their sales and in the way their their company was growing, they needed to go ahead and start working seven days a week, and they needed to put on an extra shift to to produce product. They'd never had to do that before. They'd always, you know, sort of that robust good health. They'd been able to do it on one shift. They'd been able to do it through five, sometimes surging to six days a week, but now it was like okay, another shift seven days a week, and they said let's just do it. In fact, they made the announcements and they laid out how it was going to be done, and and sort of that that canary in the coal mine kind of a thing, or that trusted advisor was when that company's chaplain came to the CEO and said, "You know, I'm I'm hearing rumblings that you've got some you've got some single parent employees. This is this is this may be the reason they have to leave the company because they don't have childcare or they don't have they don't have a way to make provisions for what their hours are going to be, how they're going to deal with these these challenges, you know, outside or that just other you know other type issues on transportation or you know things that lots of times just never get considered. But it was that chaplain that when he came to the CEO and said, you know, this this and this, how can that be mitigated? That's what had them, you know. That's what it took for them to to stop, put the decision on hold long enough to determine. Okay, is there another way to do this? And I don't remember what they ended up doing, but I know it. It was a CEO that was wise enough to realize. Okay, I've missed some things here. I've I've kind of rushed this decision, and so let's go ahead and and take a step back and and see what it what it might be. I think a big thing too is just you know you're going to see things in your family when you've got to maybe get over the tips of your skis. You know, there's again when when you you can't do things that you've habitually done with your children, or you you have to start putting things that have been really key things in your family on hold, or you've got to got to you know just forego them now for this season or whatever it is, you know that's that creates some some hesitation because what's the what's the impact of that?

Greg King  48:44  
It's it's not just you know there may be revenue or there may be whatever this decision is some good to come, but am I willing to go ahead and make my family pay the price? Because all too often that's what happens is the family quietly pays the price of these decisions and of that executive or that CEO or that owner's commitment to work and and his drive to grow and drive for you know for some recognition things like that it's the family that's paying the price for that so you know we see culture get affected culture get impacted again when your when your company is built on certain things, and then you start to take those things away, or you start to make exceptions to them. You start they start to fray around the edges. Then it starts to make people question what's changing inside this company, and is this something I want to do? So maybe there's some attrition that you know that follows too. That you know why would this guy leave or why would that lady leave? They've been here for years. They you know, those are things that that should cause somebody to you know to take step back to start to consider. Okay, what what am I missing? Because that I mean that's the biggest thing. We end up with such blind spots as leaders. You know we can't see them. I mean they're blind spots, and so when you can have folks, and again it's it's one of the things that that's so powerful about a table of peers. When people have when a table has the transparency and has the vulnerability and has the trust to be able to you know tell the emperor he doesn't have any clothes on, then we can go ahead and and you know make some some smart decisions or some wise decisions. But lots of times, as folks advance in their career, as their companies grow, there are fewer and fewer folks that can that can speak truth to power or that will speak you know speak truth to power. I'm not going to risk my job over telling this is a terrible idea. That's how a lot of folks are going to approach it. And so as that company grows, that you know it sort of fits in or figures into that isolation that I mentioned earlier. It just that that owner or that CEO gets more and more on an island where they're they're really kind of just going on their own counsel, and you know bad things usually happen. Culture is usually affected. The long time long term viability of company a lot of times is affected because of that.

David Bush  51:16  
Yeah. Well, we got about four more questions in nine minutes, so we're going to go into the hyper round and get just a quick answer on some of these things. So the first one is: What shifts in a leader when they begin defining success differently?

Greg King  51:33  
I think when there's there's there's more joy and there's more fulfillment for them. They start to see changes in their business. They start to see changes in their marriage. They start to see changes in inside the company. We want things lots of times when when a leader starts to you know bring bring more folks in. Stop trying to be the lone ranger. Stop trying to be the one that makes every decision, right? So now we're going to go ahead. We're going to, you know, we're going to train up leaders that we have. We're going to go ahead and start to to have have expectations over their responsibilities. We're going to have expectations of of what they'll do in their work and how they'll do it, and then we're going to trust them to do it. And we're going to we're gonna help them grow. We're gonna grow with them. So now you got people stepping up. You trust them to step up. You let them make some mistakes. You know they don't get their their head whacked off or something. But then they realize, hey, I you know I can I can actually start to think like an owner in this organization. I can start to to make some decisions. I can start to take some responsibility. They're investing in me. They're investing in my future. They're investing in in my capability. Well, you know, as you as you start to to let go of some of those things, because with so many folks, owners and CEOs, you know, control control just just stifles a lot of things when you won't let go, when you won't let somebody else do it, or you second guess every decision that someone else makes. Well, now when you start to let go of those things, then leadership gets to be more fun. You get to see people grow. You get to see some excitement you wouldn't see otherwise, and now a lot of good things spring from that, just from trusting folks that you've brought on board, and but you brought them on board because you thought they were the right folks, and now when you start to empower them and you start to trust them, then some good things happen all across the board, families at work everywhere.

David Bush  53:42  
Well, I know we're talking about a lot of different topics that could lead to turning points for business owners and CEOs. But are there any specific conversations or confrontations that often become those catalysts of change for business owners?

Greg King  54:00  
Yeah, there are, but it's it's the oftentimes it's it's that thing that hasn't been that hasn't been well thought out, that hasn't been well researched, that hasn't been prayed over, that hasn't been really entered winsomely. Then when that when that starts to come apart, especially if it if it creates something existential in the company, I mean, if it's the difference between between existing or not, you know, being a company or being bankrupt, that's something that will open folks' eyes, and and they'll finally come face to face with the fact that you know they're not the be all and end all of this business, and and that allow that opens them up then to some receptivity or just some vulnerability to go ahead and listen and take some advice. You know, we had a we had a we had a member once, and this was just prior to COVID, and this it was a it was it. One of the things I think we're proudest of is a as a forum, and we had a member that said, "Hey, he told me when I met with him for a one-on-one at the start of the month, he said I may not be at the meeting this month because we may be out of business. And so we went ahead. That was a little overstated, but he was still in business. The time of the meeting, we had him come, we had him bring his wife, and then we took the first half of the day and we did nothing but triage his business. You know, butcher pads all around in the room. By the time we were done, the folks around the table had prioritized every one of his bills, every one of his accounts payable that he had. We had you know, looked at the order he paid things in, just a number of things, and basically gave him a roadmap for how to correct the ship. You know, how to right the ship, how to correct this path he was on. He had plenty of money coming in; he just hadn't gone out and collected it. He had, you know, just gotten strung out on on receivables and and it just it was a mess, but it was like by the time we were done, you know, we rolled these things up. Actually, gave him a you know one to end list of go do this, go do this. One guy had actually while we were talking, one of his biggest outstanding bills, you know, we're in Southwest Virginia. the the the credit of the person that owed them money was out in St. Louis, and we got to the point where one of the members said, "Okay, look, I just I just checked it on the map or on Google Maps, and you can be there in nine hours or 11 hours. So you should go home, pack a bag, hit the road, and then you need to be in the CEO's office tomorrow morning, first thing. You just need to sit there all day, and if you'll sit there all day, you'll leave with a check. And and you know, there's a lot of resistance on his part to do something like that, but he did it. He actually drove to St. Louis, went to the company, went in, and just sat in the outer office of somebody all day long. And it got so uncomfortable for that company. I mean, here's a small company in southwestern Virginia, and here's a multi-multi million dollar company, and we strung this guy out to the point that he drove to town and is going to wait for us to cut a check. But that's what it took to keep him in business. And from then on, it just it it also helped him realize where his his blind spots and where some blinders had been, who he was paying first, and he didn't need to be. I mean, he was about to be cut off from his suppliers, but he was he was prioritizing the guy he bought the business from as his his very first checks he cut every month, without realizing that guy.

Greg King  57:54  
You know, he'll only get his money as if you're in business, and if you have raw materials to work with, and that was that was just one of those aha moments where you see the power of peers really kind of come around somebody and help them, you know, put put a bunch of bad thinking out of the way, get smart about what they're doing, and then go off and do some good stuff.

David Bush  58:20  
Yeah, I love the phrase "opportunity is nowhere. If you just look at it a little differently, it says opportunity is now here. But sometimes you need outside perspective to bring up, and the fact that you got to separate the W and the H. And as oftentimes as I ask that question, people oftentimes don't see opportunity is now here because they're so conditioned and fixed mindset towards looking at things the same way. So having those blind spots exposed, and I love the the phrase that you said. You know, you're not only going to get your questions answered, but you're going to get your answers questioned. And sometimes the best coaching, the best guidance, the best mentorship is not in the answer; it's in the question. And so, as we wrap up here today, Greg, you've given us so much great content to think through. But let's just say that there is a business owner, CEO that's watching this recording or is here live right now, and they feel successful on paper. Everything looks right, but they're restless underneath. They're not feeling that significance. They're not feeling like that their business is a ministry. They're not feeling clear on their purpose or their calling or what matters most. What would be some next steps that maybe you would guide that person to?

Greg King  59:35  
You know, probably to to meet with somebody, whether it's me or or somebody like me, but somebody that that's detached, someone that doesn't know a lot about them or the business, to go ahead and kind of take them through some questions. You know, look at look at core values, look at their mission and vision, begin to try to assess what kind of culture they have in their company, things like that. But. Try to understand where they at. Have they just are they things going like they are because they just are are in the sweet spot of the economy or whatever, or are there truly some good things going on in that business that can that can get much better with some help, and then understand where are they in the way of of folks that can speak into their life, both personally, as men or as women, or professionally, as a as a fellow business owner, or you know, just just other folks that are that are on this journey too, who can help them along the way and and see who they have, because again, you know, most of the time, it's especially prevalent with men. You know, we don't have a lot of close associations. You know, anymore, we don't have a lot of folks that can speak into us, can speak to us, and speak into our lives and actually call out some things sometimes that that they see that we may not see. We may not even be you know realize that it's happening, but we need someone who cares enough about us. Even if they don't know us that well, but they at least, you know, is just kind of a another man. They don't want to see somebody crash and burn. So if nothing else, it's just it's worth that sharing that little bit of wisdom with them. So that's what I say. Try to try to find somebody you could go ahead and confide in and speak with, and just kind of assess where where am I today? How are things going?

David Bush  1:01:30  
Really good, Greg. Thanks so much for your time, and thanks to everybody that joined us live. If you watch this live or a recorded version, the contact information will be inside of the recording information, so when you registered for this webinar, you'll get an email with the recording with the link to the register link to watch the recording and to view the show notes and the summary and all the cool details. If you are watching a recording, head on over to the description of this video and you can find Great King's contact information to reach out to them and to get that conversation started. So, if you found this valuable, we'd love for you to share it with other people that you think would be of interest. And be sure to reach out to Greg King and say thank you. So, thanks so much for your time, Greg. Thanks everybody for joining us, and we wish you all the very best in success and significance in the future.

Greg King  1:02:18  
Thanks, David, and thank thank you for everybody who joined us, I appreciate you spending the time with us. Have a great day. God bless.

David Bush  1:02:28  
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